On the suggestion of the pastor from Barro, who had his part in the episode, I wrote to Margarita Huerta in Madrid, asking for details. She answered on June 18th, 1973:
«Yes, I was in Garabandal during the visit of the false pope, Clement XV. But I can't remember the date;
possibly it was during 1963, as you suggest, or perhaps in 1964;
I do remember that it was during my summer vacation, between July and August.»
(Concerning the year, there is no room for question. The November, 1972 issue of 'La Verite,' the magazine of Clement XV, contains an interview of the pseudo-pope with a reporter in which the pseudo-pope said,
"I was in Garabandal on August 2nd, 1963."
(Just two months after the death of Pope John)
«He rode into the village in a big limousine, accompanied by two young laymen of about 21 years of age, and another one over 30 years old who seemed to be married.»
According to Fr. de la Riva, those that accompanied him were wearing smart uniforms.
«He wore an impeccable white cassock, and a similar white skullcap on his head, a ring like bishops wear, and on his chest there was a large cross hanging from a long chain. On seeing him, the people gathered around him immediately, thinking naturally that he was an important character. He gave his ring to kiss and all looked at him with the greatest respect.»
(Perhaps this reception was the basis for what he believed of himself . . . And what he told a reporter from Amsterdam,
was received as the true pope. I was taken by the people of the village to the places of the apparitions. It was a triumphal hosanna. As I didn't know the visionaries or their messages, I felt really surprised by such enthusiasm."
The poor man had to believe that God had spoken there in his favor ... But his euphoria was not destined to last long.)
«As neither he nor his companions spoke anything but French, my friend and I began to act as intermediaries. He told me that he had come to visit Garabandal by command of the departed John XXIII, who had confided to him the mission of investigating the events occurring there ... At the time, I succeeded in getting away from him for a few moments and I went to where Fr. José
Ramón Garcia de la Riva had separated himself from the crowd's commotion. I relayed his declarations to the priest and he told me,
Go and ask him to show you the document that he brings from Rome,
When I asked him for it, he answered me,
No. I don't carry any document;
John XXIII gave me the order verbally.
I went to tell this to Fr. José
Ramón and he said to me,
I don't like the sound of this. Only God can know who this character is!
Furthermore I don't want to know anything about this matter;
I'm not looking for trouble.
And he walked away.»
Amused, people came in increasing numbers to see the curious personage, and all thought that they were in front of an important figure of the Church. He then manifested his intention of celebrating Mass for everyone there up high at the Pines, since he carried a portable altar and
had permission to celebrate Mass in all places.
But Margarita Huerta dissuaded him, making him see that would not cause a good impression on the people, since everyone knew of the Bishop of Santander's prohibitions . . . The man was somewhat dismayed, and apologized for personally being unaware of such prohibitions,
although for him, they didn't oblige in any way.
Margarita could not know that, at the same time in a separate conversation, two of his accomplices were telling her friend Fracasado that
he was the authentic Pope, the Pope
predicted by the prophet St. Malachy to follow John XXIII. And that it was he, Clement XV, and not the false Pope Paul VI, who should be obeyed.
Frustrated with regard to saying Mass, Clement XV expressed to Margarita another desire: to talk with the girls of the apparitions. Immediately someone went to find them, but the girls, for some reason (perhaps they had been alerted about this suspicious personality), did not want to come.
Clement XV was irritated, and so at the time Margarita tried to soothe over the situation:
«Understand that the Bishop of Santander has prohibited priests and religious from coming here without written permission. And as you don't carry any certificate, either your own or from Rome, the people have started to look at you with suspicion.
Then he asked me to find a house for him where he could eat and sleep. I took them to Tiva's house and they invited me to eat with them;
I accepted the invitation. Before ending, Clement XV still insisted on his desire of talking with the girls;
he said to the oldest of those accompanying him,
Why don't you go with this woman to Conchita's house and tell her to come here?
The man answered without even looking at him,
Why should I go?
In no way will I go.
Clement XV remained without saying a word.»
Finally they went to sleep. And on the next day, very early in the morning, they got away from the village in their limousine.
had its reason. On the previous afternoon, as soon as rumors about this character wanting to pass himself off as the real Pope had come to his ears, Fr. de la Riva went to Ceferino, the Mayor of the village, to tell him this person's stay would bring many troubles and problems to everyone. Then Ceferino went up to Clement XV to make him know, that if he did not immediately get out of the village, he would be turned over to the commandant of the Civil Guard at Puente Nansa.
The warning had its effect. Clement XV dispensed with his pontifical air. Asking Ceferino not to do anything, he said they would leave right away, and would he permit them only to rest there that night.
* * *
This is the actual history of the episode that Clement XV experienced at Garabandal, and that nine years later in Amsterdam he encapsuled before a reporter in the words we have just seen,
was received like the true pope. I was taken by the people of the village to the places of the apparitions. It was a triumphal hosanna . . . I felt really surprised by such enthusiasm.
How is such self-suggestion possible?
Or perhaps it is not self-suggestion . . .
In another place in this book, Conchita's statement to the Mother at the college at Burgos on November 12th, 1966 was mentioned,
«You know Father Collin?
Now he is passing for a pope. He was in my village. He wanted to talk with me, but my mother didn't let him. Finally they threw him out of the village . . . Well, when I was in Rome,
they showed me a picture in a magazine on which I appeared next to him, and it was written there that he had been with me, and many other lies.»
Obviously, Clement XV wanted to exploit the events of Garabandal to his advantage, just as he has always tried to make people believe that the famous Secret of Fatima was in his favor.
* * *
We have seen how Conchita repeated that she had heard that, after the last pope, there would not come the
end of the world,
but rather the
end of the times.
What is the difference?
This is a difficult question, which would require many pages for clarification. We will only make some brief considerations here, so that the matter will not be completely obscure.
end of the world
is understood the annihilation of the cosmic world that we are acquainted with, we could well say that the end of the world will never come, since the world will not be destroyed, but substantially changed. To speak therefore of the end of the world is to refer to that final point in history when the existence of man as he is at present will be changed into another form, very different and much better.
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth. For the first heaven and the first earth were gone... And death shall be no more, nor mourning, nor crying, nor sorrow shall be any more, for the former things are passed away. And He that sat on the throne said: Behold I make all things new.
Such a substantial change would certainly comprise a tremendous display of upheaval and destruction;
since for man, the worker of iniquity (Matt. 13: 41), the change from the temporary state to the permanent will not be smooth.
But the present heavens and earth, by the same word are kept in store, reserved for fire on the day of the judgment and perdition of ungodly men... But the day of the Lord shall come as a thief, in which the heavens shall pass away with great violence, and the elements shall be melted with heat and the earth and the works that are in it shall be burned up.
(II Peter 3: 7-10)
To all this we refer when we speak of the end of the world. If the expression,
end of the times
does not mean the same, then it would have to refer to
something prior to it and of exceptional importance.
What would this be?
That is the question.
certainly will not end until the finish of the present form of existence;
an existence that is transitory, subject to succession and change;
because of this, the end of time will coincide with the
end of the world.
may well not be the same thing as
Jesus, in His eschatological discourse,
according to the version of St. Luke (21: 24)
said about the coming ruin of the Jewish city:
And they Shall fall by the edge of the sword;
and shall be led awav captive into all the nations;
and Jerusalem shall be trodden down by the gentiles;
until the times of the nations be fulfilled.
Thus the first chosen people, Israel, will remain dispersed and their capital, the Holy City, abandoned by God as in the grand captivity of Babylon. The gentiles who embrace the faith will then replace the unfaithful Jewish nation as the nation of God. Such a situation will last for a long time:
the times of the nations.
will be fulfilled when the time comes for Israel once again thru a massive conversion to Christianity. The effects of such a conversion would have enormous significance, according to St. Paul:
Have the Jews fallen forever, or have they just stumbled?
Obviously they have not fallen forever. But by their fall, salvation has com to the gentiles... For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their reception be, but resurec-tion from the dead!
(Romans II: 11-15)
History then will take a spectacular turn, unforeseeable and bewildering. Truly there will be
Is this being heralded by Garabandal for the near future?
end of the times,
which is predicted to follow John XXlII's third successor, be the
consummation of the times of the nations,
that will pave the way for Israel's great new epoch in the service of God and mankind?
I would be inclined to say yes,
if it were not for a serious difficulty: the prediction that the third successor of John XXIII would be the
It is hard to understand how the Church could exist without a head or a ruler. If there were no head, would not Our Lord have to appear to us, to achieve by His second coming the work which began with His first?
That would be the
Or would He proceed to the great consummation supposed by the Last Universal Judgment, in which case, the
end of the times
would be practically the same thing as the
end of the world.
Or would He only change the present state of things in such a way as to prepare the final path for the great consummation. Perhaps St. Paul refers to this when he says:
For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. And when all things shall be subdued under Him, then the Son Himself must be subject also to Him that pnt all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
(I Cor. 15: 25-28)
There is also another possibility: in speaking of the three last popes, this could refer to their reigning in Rome like their predecessors. Only in this would they be the last, since perhaps there could later be some extra-Roman pontiffs. Can this possibility be excluded?
The more I think about it, the more I favor the last hypothesis.
The Catholic Church originated in Jerusalem where Saint Peter had his seat. Following the falling away of Israel after the Jews put the Messiah to death and violently rejected his works, Saint Peter went to find a place among the
the gentile people, and his seat was established in Rome which was then the undeniable head of the gentile world.
The succession of Saint Peter was then perpetuated in the Bishop of Rome who was the
of the Church and the Head of the Episcopal College. From that time the same person was both Bishop of Rome and
of the Church.
But if Rome would perish or disappear, there would be no more bishops belonging to it. And if Jerusalem would become a converted Israel, a Christian one, a
as had so often been predicted by the biblical prophecies, it would become the
city of the great King.
word of the Lord would save all peoples
and the successor of Saint Peter, the Vicar of Christ, would situate himself. The center of the Church would thus return to its origin.
Rome is called
in passages of the New Testament
(I Peter 5: 13)
and there are many things in the 17th and 19th chapters of the Apocalypse about its destiny . . .
Concise and explicit is the final paragraph of the famous prophecy of Saint Malachy on the popes:
In the last persecution of the Holy Roman Church the throne will be held by Peter the Roman, who will tend his sheep in the midst of tribulations. When these have passed, the City of the Seven Hills will be destroyed, and the terrible judge will judge his
But we should not ignore that Garabandal, from the days of 1963, has proclaimed that we are entering into decisive times, perhaps the last that will be marked by the arms of the great clock of history.
Maximina, Conchita's aunt and godmother, was present on the scene, judging from her letter which I saw in the Pifarré
collection, dated June 5:
«On the day that the Holy Father died, when it was mentioned here that he died, I was with Conchita and she said:
Oh, now only three more remain!
Slightly irritated, her mother spoke to her like this:
What do you know?
And she answered with great conviction,
Well, I know, since the Virgin told me this.
Her mother didn't like her to say things like this since, although it could be seen that she believed, you know she always had the fear that this wasn't true ...»
Vatican II, convoked and inaugurated by John XXIII, had only finished one session (October — December, 1962)
during which it had taken a direction that certainly was not what its planners had intended. The Council had just begun, and it was expected to continue, but all this depended on what the new Pope would decide.
Conchita spoke again about the three Popes that remained and the end of the times. It happened in Maximina's house during the First Communion dinner of her son, Pepe Luis, to which Mrs. Ortiz was invited. Conchita repeated the same thing, without being able to give the explanations that the listeners' curiosity desired.
+ March 30th, 1973. On his deathbed he declared that he had received an unequivocal sign from heaven about the truth of Garabandal.
For some time Aniceta and Conchita traveled regularly to the seminary at Comillas — taking advantage of the cars of friends and acquaintances — to have their confessions heard by this priest.Father Rodrigo wrote to Father Ramon on November 13th, 1965:
«A fortnight ago on Tuesday, the pastor of Barro brought Aniceta and Conchita to me . . . While I was alone with Conchita, she confirmed that the Virgin had told her on the death of John XXIII that there remain only 3 Popes
(counting the present)
end of the times.»
In this letter there is another interesting thing:
also told me:
As the people were talking about trips to space, I asked the Virgin if there were persons living out there, and she told me:
", but she didn 't add anything more.»
The four divisions that follow John XXIII are:
1. Flos florum = Flower of flowers.
2. De medietate lunae = Half of the moon.
3. De labore solis = From the work of the sun.
4. De gloria olivae = From the glory of the olive branch.
Surely this August 2 is a printer's error, and should be August 22. A letter from Conchita to Father Laffineur makes me think this way:
«San Sebastian de Garabandal .... August 23,1963. Just a few words to tell you that yesterday a car came to the village with a man accompanied by two others. He was dressed in white and carried a large cross on his chest, also a skullcap and ring. He was French. He came saying that he was the Pope chosen by God;
that Paul VI was elected only by the cardinals. He also said that from the time he was 35 years old, he saw the Virgin and also God, Who was the one who told him to come here ...»
But who is this individual?
His name is Michael Collin and he is a fallen-away, former Catholic priest from France.
In the interview just mentioned, he himself resumed the most important times of hia life:
I was baptized in Béchy where I was born. I was ordained a priest by Cardinal Lienart in Lille. On April 28th. 1935, I was consecrated Bishop by Our Lord at Vaux-le-Metz;
and finally. Pope, by God Himself in Sorrento, on October 7. 1950.
If such direct interventions from heaven to promote him do not seem peculiar, certainly his pathway to being elected is, as he himself descibes it:
From my childhood, the Lord made me know thai I had to help the world and save it.
And when 16 years old. He clearly confided to me the mission of
"saving the world.
" When I made my First Communion. Jesus told me privately,
"Miguel, you will be a priest one day: afterwards, bishop;
From those years, the Lord appeared to me and also the Virgin. When I was still small, I thought that everyone saw them as I. When. 1 didn 't understand His words very well. He said to me,
"Everything will become clear;
we must hope."
And for a long time I doubted like this. But now that 1 have seen the Most Holy Virgin, clothed in black, shedding tears and asking me to accomplish my mission, I have put all my doubtt aside. 1 will fight until the day on which God reigns on eerlh as in heaven , . .
In I950, God Himself consecrated me Pope in Sorrento. It was on October 7th, the feast of the Most Holy Rosary. From four until eight in the morning, I was in communication with Him . . . And I descended from St. Peter in a direct spiritual line, through Pius XII . . .
To save the world from an immense deluge, moral and material, and to make straight the Church. which is walking toward the abyss;
here is the reason and purpose for
life. And so we have an answer to the secret of Fatima. which announced a
to bring this mission to an end.
What got in the way to prevent him from doing this?
Miguel-Clemente XV tells us point blank:
Paul VI, friend of Satan . . . On the death of John XXIII, he himself declared,
"I don't want to be Pope: there is a French man who is already designated."
He knew the secret of Fatima, since Pius XII had spoken to
him about it. But later he preferred to be a usurper, and with his lamentabte past. . .
And so from Pope Clement's words, it is easy to understand our misfortune. And it will be much worse:
The nations will be destroyed by an atomic war without precedent, if Clement XV does not officially take over the direction of the Church.
Clement XV has spoken!
It is called this since it speaks of the last events, referring to the final consummation of man's history. The theological study that deals with the last things of the world has received the name of Eschatology (from the Greek word 'eschatos' meaning last).]
For the Jews, the
comprise all other peoples and nations that are not descendants of Abraham, the chosen one of God. The Israelites, sons and heirs of the promise, constitute a nation completely separate;
the other nations are the common masses. Because of this, the word
rather than having a religious signification, indicates the condition of being part of the
Perhaps the fact of presenting herself at Garabandal as Our Lady of Mount Carmel, apart from its theological and mystical meaning (see the
Ascent of Mount Carmel
by St. John of the Cross), has also a mysterious reference to the nearness of eschatological times.
Mount Carmel has been closely associated with devotion to the Virgin from the remotest times;
but it is also closely associated with the history of Israel (in the decisive hours of the Alliance)
and with the activities of the great prophet of the old testament, Elias.
By appearing under her ancient title of Our Lady of Mount Carmel in these modern times of the world, does the Virgin want to indicate that she will take decisive action so that the mass conversion of the Jews — that has been waiting for almost two millennia now — will be accomplished, fulfilling that way the times
of the nations?
Does she want to point out the imminence of the final times when, according to the Apocalypse (II: 3-6)
the man of Mount Carmel, Elias, will make his last acts as preacher and witness of the Lord?
There are times in which I think I find a certain mimetic likeness between the sound of the word Garabandal and the sound of the Hebrew or Arab word for Carmel. It is almost as if there were two Carmels: one from the east, and one from the west, both chosen as locations for salvation by the presence of the Virgin.
is a biblical and theological term to designate the solemn manifestation of Christ at the end of time.